fishguy1978
Legendary Member
I think these two are a pair. The marble is the tank bully. The blue is the only one that doesn’t get bullied of the angels. I have an empty 20g hex tank I plan to set up as a breeder while I am off for Christmas.
Angel fish
- Thread starter fishguy1978
- Start date
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
Yup, spawning now. Unfortunately, the worst location they could choose. I’m going to move them to the 20g hex and the danios and new angels will have to go somewhere else. Later
Well, for sure you have a female. You should be able to tell the sex of the other one by the shape of the breeding tube, and of course, by whether the eggs turn out to be fertile.
I was breeding wild angelfish stock I caught in Peru years ago, and it was a totally different ballgame. Short version of a long story- good over beers sometime- is that the wild pairs demanded at least a 4-foot tank! Yikes! Crossed the wild females to black males; got some really nice fishes, but still very aggressive and territorial. Angels have been bred in captivity for decades, so this is a perfect example of how 'domesticated' and wild fishes can be very different. Anyone who has bred wild-caught Apistogramma will tell the same story. Here is a breeding pair of my F1's, and no, these are not 'veiltails,' it's how P. scalare look in the wild, i. e, 'wild-type' -
Good luck!
I was breeding wild angelfish stock I caught in Peru years ago, and it was a totally different ballgame. Short version of a long story- good over beers sometime- is that the wild pairs demanded at least a 4-foot tank! Yikes! Crossed the wild females to black males; got some really nice fishes, but still very aggressive and territorial. Angels have been bred in captivity for decades, so this is a perfect example of how 'domesticated' and wild fishes can be very different. Anyone who has bred wild-caught Apistogramma will tell the same story. Here is a breeding pair of my F1's, and no, these are not 'veiltails,' it's how P. scalare look in the wild, i. e, 'wild-type' -
Good luck!
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
Thanks, I moved the pair into a 20g ish half circle and made a pop bottle filter with poly fill and some spair media. I have some granite tile from the previous owners so I broke one and leaned it against the wall of the tank and laid the other pieces flat to prevent sliding. Time to start conditioning them intentionally.
The marble is a male definitely has a tube not an ovaduct like the blue.
Some angelfish genetics, for anyone who might be interested...
In angelfish, Marble (Dm) is a semidominant mutation at Locus 4, and blue is a recessive mutation at Locus 8. Thus, the relevant genotypes of your parents are either +/Dm or Dm/Dm for your male (I would guess Dm/Dm from his phenotype), and b/b for your female. Therefore, although all of the progeny of this cross will carry one blue allele, their phenotypes will be either all Marble (if your male is Dm/Dm) or 50% Wild-type and 50% Marble (if your male is +/Dm). This assumes that there are no other cryptic recessives in the parents. blue homozygotes are also known to have reduced fry viability, but I do not know whether heterozygotes are similarly affected. Things get considerably more complicated in the next generation, but we can cross that bridge when you come to it. Keep us posted!
In angelfish, Marble (Dm) is a semidominant mutation at Locus 4, and blue is a recessive mutation at Locus 8. Thus, the relevant genotypes of your parents are either +/Dm or Dm/Dm for your male (I would guess Dm/Dm from his phenotype), and b/b for your female. Therefore, although all of the progeny of this cross will carry one blue allele, their phenotypes will be either all Marble (if your male is Dm/Dm) or 50% Wild-type and 50% Marble (if your male is +/Dm). This assumes that there are no other cryptic recessives in the parents. blue homozygotes are also known to have reduced fry viability, but I do not know whether heterozygotes are similarly affected. Things get considerably more complicated in the next generation, but we can cross that bridge when you come to it. Keep us posted!
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
Well, they have given us a chance to see what their genetic profiles can produce.
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
Had to separate the pair as they were picking on each other pretty aggressively. I did notice a couple eggs turned white. I will update when I get home from work.
Not unusual for an inexperienced pair. Hopefully the white eggs are just ones that didn't get fertilized.
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
Boy are they ever inexperienced. The majority of the eggs have turned white and all looked crushed. There isn’t a light in the tank so just ambient. I will check again when I’m home from work.
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
She beat me to it. Did a 50% water change and washed the granite piece. I started an infusoria culture from filter debris so I added a little aged water from the culture to help cycle.
Were you able to tell whether any of the eggs were fertile? Worried about your male, with the majority of eggs not getting fertilized. I know you said that you were confident that the Marble was a male, but this whole pattern- crazy aggression after the eggs were laid, destruction of the clutch by the egg-layer- is typical of pseudo-spawning behaviors between two females, which are not uncommon.
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
I think 50/50. The tank temp was less than 80 degrees too so I swapped heaters. 50w for a 200w.
I can vouch for them being male and female as their equipment is definitely different. The female has a pink triangle and the male had a little tube, so she said.
I can vouch for them being male and female as their equipment is definitely different. The female has a pink triangle and the male had a little tube, so she said.
Have you put the pair back together yet? They usually spawn pretty quickly after a failed attempt, as you've seen already. No doubt the low temp was a stressor. Think ~85 degrees.
If you haven't raised angels before, you should be aware that the spawning bit is the easy part; it's raising the fry that is tricky. Whether you let the parents do this- which is one of the coolest things you'll ever see as the little ones sprout 'wings'- or do it artificially, the fry need scrupulously clean water. When I was raising angels I used completely bare tanks (no substrate) with just one piece of slate for the eggs, and a clean but well-seasoned sponge filter, and did 50-70% water changes every day. Even so, fry mortality is high for a cichlid. Good luck!
If you haven't raised angels before, you should be aware that the spawning bit is the easy part; it's raising the fry that is tricky. Whether you let the parents do this- which is one of the coolest things you'll ever see as the little ones sprout 'wings'- or do it artificially, the fry need scrupulously clean water. When I was raising angels I used completely bare tanks (no substrate) with just one piece of slate for the eggs, and a clean but well-seasoned sponge filter, and did 50-70% water changes every day. Even so, fry mortality is high for a cichlid. Good luck!
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
I did reintroduce the male into the tank yesterday. I did a 50% water change added the male and refilled the tank.
I have had angels before that spawned but never succeeded at raising the fry. Fingers crossed.
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
These two are acting like a pair. Hope to see some action.
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
The marble mail has paired off with one of the standard females and spawning has taken place 2-3 times now on uplift tubes. Today they spawn on the AC110 tube so I removed the section and placed it in the 15g bowfront and added meth. blue. Fingers crossed.
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
fishguy1978
Legendary Member
Yes